Curse

Venus was her name · Dec 12, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Probally been mentioned before but i'll share it anyway.

What i see as a major issue in GW is the huge dependance on a single class, that obviously being the monk.

So Cleric would in essence be another healing class, mix that with some support and buffs. To make this different than what a monk is would make the cleric a melee capable class. Or give the player a choice between melee and ranged setups with either mace or sling. yeah this is pretty much a D+D cleric but id love to see another healing type charcater in GW, possibly the cleric would have spells to actually put the ability scores of foes/allies up and down? e.g. a spell which upon casting on a target ally raises their swords attribute by 4 points (could have various ones for the various classes). yes classes can to a limited degree alter attributes, but the cleric would to a wider extent.

yes rits can heal + buff but i see them more as a summoner type charcater and lets be honest their healing ability is a quite weak.

Example Skill (a stolen example from D+D lol)

Vahn Roi · Dec 12, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

If you think Rit healing is weak, you aren't using the right skill set.

Also, have you ever tried a Motivation paragon? The chants of Restoration are pretty spectacular.

Venus was her name · Dec 13, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

yes but when compared to a monks healing? i see rits as more of a summoner myself.

how many specific healing rits do you meet? very very few.

what im looking at here is another direct healer, not someebody like a rit or para thats got healing skills but usually as part of requirement (like a shout ending on that ally)

draxynnic · Dec 13, 2006, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Actually, most rits can go to being a healer if requested. The ritualist has four direct healing spells - Ghostmirror Light, Spirit Light, Soothing Memories, and Mend Body and Soul. Yes, they all have conditions that make them more effective, but Spirit Light is the only one that has a real downside to not fulfilling the condition, and even without fulfilling the condition each of the others compares reasonably well with Orison, even taking Divine Favour into account. (For instance, Mend Body and Soul at 12 Restoration heals 96 Health, while Orison needs 12 Healing and 11 Divine Favour to match it, although Orison does have the advantage of a shorter recharge.) Generally, the three seconds or so it takes to bring in a well-chosen spirit isn't going to kill anyone, especially if your party isn't rushing and you can pre-lay a spirit.

Paragon healing, yes, that does have a requirement - but most of those requirements are often things that are likely to trigger anyway (at least, if you put some thought into your party on skill selection), and on the whole, they help quite a bit with relieving pressure from the monks.

BahamutKaiser · Dec 13, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

I do agree that the next support class should have a strong Healing capability. Monk is the only class so far with an attribute and a diverse set of healing skills.

Ritualist has a hybrid of strong but less frequent healing and protection spells in Restoration, but for pure healing it really is second string.

Paragon offers healing support, but it definetly isn't a healing alternative, you woln't see any number of paragons replacing a monk.

I hope that they make a more potion and technique based healer, who has a very potent healing and regeneration attribute in the future, the ideas for Alchemist which use healing and harming potions are pretty nice, as a healing alternative they could offer a class which has cheap regeneration skills with frequent heals, or a new kind of synergy which makes their frequent healing and regeneration cost effective.

Venus was her name · Dec 13, 2006, 12:13 PM // 12:13

hey BahamutKaiser didnt think of it that way but yeah good idea!

don't want to turn this into a ritualist healing topic guys but jesus christ have either of you actually played rit..LOL

they can't replace or substitute a full monk healer, they have a handful of healing skills compared to a monks dozens!

if anything rits and paras can offer some backline healing support. if rits and paras were good healers then you'd see people in groups with no monks....have you EVER SEEN THAT???

healing needs to be done on demand and needs to be sustained for often a long time...rits and paras can't heal ON DEMAND becuase they have a requirement to fullfil 1st even if thats a small requirment, 1 second makes a lot of difference....

not only that but anet quite obviously made rits and paras on another central theme which is as a spiritualist/summoner type charcater for rits, and a paladin/motivational/leader type charcater for paragons.

BahamutKaiser · Dec 14, 2006, 04:45 AM // 04:45

I have a Rit, and I know it isn't a monk.

You jump to readily to conclusions.

And Ritualist can replace a Monk, it usually woln't be as good, but it can work. But in most cases, at least one monk in the party is a neccessity.

Skills like Weapon of Warding in combination with Wielders Boon, wile skills like Ghostmirror light, Mend body and soul, and Spirit Light all provide great healing without the modification, and even better results with spirits around.

The proper combination of Ritualist spells and Binding Rituals can be as good and better than monks healing, they may require some monk or mesmer abilities to remove hexes, but outside of that, the few spells they have can do well enough. Triggers for additional effectiveness are not requirements, they are bonuses.

Monks may have a better inventory of healing skills, but the acutal effectiveness, cost and frequency is nearly the same, with a benifit to ritualist with certain combinations, like added healing, condition removal, and reduced cost. Given 4 or 5 slots used for healing skills a Ritualist can provide much of the same healing along with some unique advantages as well. The simple balance is that Ritualist will be more effective if they have time to prepare, and Monk will be more effective in a bind. When used properly, a combination of both can produce more output than a focus on either.

draxynnic · Dec 14, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Yes, I've played a rit - and most of the time I've played that character in a PUG, I've been a healer. Usually backing up a monk (or backed up by a monk hench/hero), but the point is that I've taken the healing ritualist role a few times before.

And the main fallacy in your argument comparing the number of healing skills is... the Monk may have dozens to choose from, but you can only put eight on your skill bar. Once you take into account resurrection skills, condition removal, possibly a hex removal (the lack of which is one of the weaknesses of the Ritualist), and energy management, the number of actual healing skills on a monk's bar is generally down to four or so, which the Ritualist can match.

Furthermore, most healing spells have fairly short recharges - three to four is generally enough that by the time you've cast the last in the list, the first has either recharged or is close to recharging. In short, you only need that handful to be viable healer - having dozens just adds to your options. (Heck, to go down the road of silliness, there have been times I've contemplated a Dervish healer using lots of short-duration enchantments to fuel Signet of Pious Light...)

Crom The Pale · Dec 14, 2006, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Actually you just hit the nail on the head draxynnic!

Ive actually been in a pvp match with a dervish monk that was our party healer. And she did quite a good job of it. Dervish will never replace a monk as a healer any more than a rit will but both can do a good enough job to beat most pve aspects of GW.

As for this class, yes a new healer is needed but I see it more as a buffer, sort of taking the monks protect skills to a whole new level. Add into that some bost to the allies skills either by decreasing energy cost/recharge times or increasing duration/damge/targets.

My Zen Disciple was such an idea but with more weight onthe buffing over the healing aspect.

BahamutKaiser · Dec 15, 2006, 12:43 AM // 00:43

The only real significant advantage Monk has in the end is the combination effect Elites, which often remove conditions, hexes and heal, or remove condtions or hexes for a low cost and gain healing from Divine Favor.

On the flip side, in a very large group with several units, pets, minions and more, widespread effects are infinetly more potent, and the bonus values gained from spirits on ritualist spells give them an advantage in healing power and effectiveness.